(2) A face-to-face conversation with Bill Hybels on April 6th. . (1) Discovery of 1,150 emails between Bill and the woman over the previous two years. As someone who didnt grow up in the church, I see the deep value of it. I treated my childhood dog like a doll. Thats how they get by with it. Contemplative Spirituality can be clearly defined this way: Contemplative Spirituality: A belief system that uses ancient mystical practices to induce altered states of consciousness (the silence) and is rooted in mysticism and the occult but often wrapped in Christian terminology. These people have patience for the long con. If you cant trust your pastor who can you trust? It is as if they are trying to saysee! Good grief, until this minute I had no idea there was such a thing as a hug culture. Got any other people of substance who would vouch for you? A year later they started Willow Creek Community Church. To fellowship with other believers? No wonder you have no qualms about slamming the Church, the bride of Christ. Testimony of victims and witnesses is not gossip. Oh well. We would use the suite for meetings, as well as gatherings for medical professionals. Or been involved with the thought reform in a social justice Warrior Church. This includes a majority Christian circle. Incidentally, I am sure there are many nuances to the science, and I make no claim to be an expert. Further, just Google and do a You Tube search on Willow Creek Church and Bill Hybels. I think I said in another thread, there are hugs and there are hugs and we can generally tell the difference. It is when people naively do not realize that everyone has an agenda, not to be cynical, that they fail to ask important questions and perform essential (to them!) Even the innocent in Israel lived with the ensuing upheaval. I read it that Jesus was doing the moderating. Ah, the broad-brush accusation of slamming the Church when actions of their leadership are called into question. Mary, you judge day in and day out. Or would he start looking for material for making a whip? Rudyard Kipling, The Picts Song (about guerilla warfare), Ok. Ok. Id just as soon do away with megas altogether, and I doubt anybody would even try either, but it might be better than placing the popularity of a church on a single person. That is where I had to start over. I think I said in another thread, there are hugs and there are hugs and we can generally tell the difference. I have to think, absolutely have to think, that a courageous leader sure wouldve done things differently in the last month, whether Hybels is totally clean and all of these women leaders in the church and old friends of Bill are part of a vast conspiracy to destroy Bill Hybels, the righteous man, or if Hybels is dirty and all along was an abusive sociopath and terminal liar. Leaders who walk in the dark are not representing Jesus but rather the same Devil the original Pharisees did. Its never about us, but always focused on Jesus the Perfecter of our faith. She also questioned her own judgment in whether he was actually being inappropriate. No one, from the janitor to the CEO, can be deemed off limits to the moral and ethical demands of respect, decency and appropriate behavior. Will the newly installed Willow Creek pastoral leadership/management just put a proverbial 501(c)3 band-aid on an open sore and continue business as usual; now that there has been identified a large hole in this churchs ethical, moral and scriptural superstructure? Once, while Mr. Hybels's wife, Lynne, and. If he was having problems with women when taking Ambien, why didnt he stop taking it and get help? (Dee), TELL YOUR DOCTOR if you have unlikely but serious side effects of Ambien including: On the surface, an extended hug may seem harmless, even though deep down it creeps you out a little. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Bill asked her to have me call when I got out. . Abuse works on the good-hearted the ones who are trying to give others the benefit of the doubt, questioning their own discernment, seeking to extend charity. @ AbuseCrusher: They share two children named Shauna Niequist who is a bestselling Christian author and Todd Hybels Who Is Lynne Hybels Lynne is the co-founder of Willow Creek Community Church and author of Nice Girls Don't Change the World and a columnist for Sojourners magazine. For further flow of events, see I, Claudius, Dune, and Game of Thrones. That group togetherness thing costs big time. in one of those situations. I was so sorry to learn about all of this yesterday and Willow Creek Church. https://futuristguymedia.wordpress.com/pyramid-of-abuse-and-culpability-complicity/. Many of them rented out old Walmart stores and added satellite campuses with downlinks. Eloquence is a gift from God, but it is only the Holy Spirit working through the folly of proclaiming Christ crucified that ever won a single soul. Its called passive aggressive and deflection. No one wants to think their pastor is being inappropriate, so your brain just dismisses it. Remember all those times we hung out together and nothing happened? When we finally did start talking, everyone called us liars. Why not go public 4 years ago?? Its like a funhouse mirror of the Christianity I used to follow. Me too. . Gossip! As a p.s. JIHAD! I see this is a crucial issue, and I appreciate that Dee has put it forward for consideration in abuse survivor communities. Just to preface: I am a nobody and not a perfect saint. Im probably sensitive about this because Ive seen the this is what you get for being an egalitarian on social media and it drives me nuts. * It is about power and control and until people in churches get this, they will be waaaaay behind the culture. And sadly most victims spend YEARS time trying to answer the question why they were targeted. Adults need to Stop being snookered by totalitarian niceness. I know its not popular here, but Im also thankful for their seeker sensitive approach. Hybel's father was an entrepreneur in wholesale produce whose work ethic was the model for his son. tax. @ Thersites: @ Davis and Natasha: The church isnt being destroyed. When I got up to leave Bill stopped me at the door and hugged/held me tightly for about thirty seconds. @ Law Prof: Rather, I think it is their twisted view of both God and humanity. I am a Billy Graham fan, just so you know. I guess Billy Graham never led anyone to Jesus then. Im a pastor and a survivor of emotional/verbal abuse (in a relationship, not in a church), and I can tell you that one of the biggest reasons I stayed as long as I did was because I was convinced that I didnt deserve better, I made my own bed and had to sleep in it, and that what I got was as good as I could ever hope for. Im not convinced that his view of hell can be called heresy. Or the colleague. Email a description of the experience to yourself right away while details are fresh. The issue with that is that its not like the secular world, in which after perps have done their time, they can make a living in their field of avocation (though in the case of fraud perpetrators and/or crimes with victims, future funds may be diverted to said victims). But worse. But she was trying to equate her comraderly relationship with Ortberg the same as women who have come forward concerning hybels Behavior. Youre not alone Lyds. Sometime in the next two weeks, I am going to write a story about a woman who was raped by her husband. So were other women who were dealing with this privately. I mean, most say they want the truth. But then, Im just The Crazy Kid, and hes always been the Sweet Little Angel. But Hybels and Willow Creek kept moving forward. I say we are. Not that hugs are linked to drugs; I am just meandering. He was the it guy on leadership in those circles for some reason. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. The problem is when the church becomes just like the world, when its a big organization with huge budgets and building programs and long-term goals and plans and a big stage with spotlights and a pastor whos a celebrity and whom very few people know, save for the 45 minute public show/motivational speech every week (or far less than every week, if youre Robert The Hairdoo Morris), people have an average drive of 30 miles to the sanctuary and what has been created is so artificial that the church leaders must create these artificial means to patch some fake community thing together so the whole works remains a going concern, what with the bills to pay and all those families dependent on those salaries. One has nothing to do with the other. And, are most people blowing this thing up bigger than it is. I think they all have the same m.o. He describes how the skilled offender plans the way he will abuse the woman from day one. Willow wont even list Mars Hill on Steve Carters website bio. Do not judge, and you will not be judged. there was no hostile work environment attached. Gossip! It was humbling for you, but there was nothing inappropriate about Bill trying to guide your whole self as an up and coming leader. Jesus is our model of leadership. Its the attempt by pastors to do life together and facilitate relationship-building which will then hopefully anchor the visitor to the church and reduce dropouts and increase retention rates. It works but is it the faith? Even worse, you can be shamed/shuned, and called lukewarm for your honest questioning of what you experienced/think. Sounds like he at the time did some things that outside of context would be perceived as unwise with co-workers. Thanks, Barbara, for your outstanding work. Okay, now is my choice to reference David. I get it bothers you. In the meantime, Crossway is still publishing and selling C.J. AFAIK they havent yet made any corrections or denials. Remember Bill hybels stepped down. she either did or didnt inform her husband immediately 1. Its the evil person who masquerades as a good person. There were people in the main office just outside the tutoring office where I worked with students. I think there can be a benefit when many people have a genuine need for human touch. Worshipers of men. Or, for instance, a pastor may be forever fishing to see what his parishioners know as to the latest church scandal, etc., without the trusting individuals ever even know this is taking place. This easy-to-follow guide for enjoying a happy, healthy, and lifelong relationship includes . Kudos to these two publishers. My guess is that given what we know now, she would not have been running with him. Bye! Catherine-you are in permanent moderation. I tried to say disciplining. Nothing can really tear down the church, as I think it was Law Prof that said, but people can get pretty mad when their fantasy of church and the people that promote that fantasy are shown to be very imperfect. As with many couples, there were times we couldn't imagine making it through another year, let alone another decade or two. Big. That said, this is all so tragic. She is the co-founder of Willow Creek Community Church, and wife to Bill Hybels the founder and former senior pastor of Willow Creek Community Church. @ Lydia. I was contemplating a megachurch model the other day where teaching pastors had term limits or rotating speakers. Please take a look at the situation in 1 Coninthians 5. Nothing more. It took celebrity to call out another celebrity because that is how that world works. Drawing as much of the world into church as they can, while still appearing to be Christian. @ Davis and Natasha: Give, and it will be given to you. Sitting there talking is not the problem. I know this sounds harsh but its notbecause I am guilty, too. Being gracious, forbearing people who do not want to hold our pastor to the standard of perfection, we persuade ourselves that we misread the situation, misunderstood the words, are making too big a deal of silly things, and so on. : NB If anything uncomfortable happens again I will be saying something clearly to him & asking him to mind his manners. Yes, it should be mentioned. We werent leaders, but we can tell you re: Stowell and many others that they leave and say nothing or little to protect their own reputations and future work in ministry. What I am remembering, and what troubled me then, is how these well-meaning people fell under the Willow Creek spell, and how their little, creaky, boring churches could not compete with the new mega entertainment center. The issue with those who had represented themselves before God and man as being in a place of spiritual authority with the responsibility to be above reproach often have escaped civil or criminal conviction or any sort of permanent admission of guilt or shortcoming for which repentance is called. unteachable. The people there sold out to it will protect it at all costs. But your iniquities have built barriers between you and your God, and your sins have made Him hide His face from you so that He does not listen. (Isaiah 59:1-2). In my opinion, much of the so-called church, admittedly unbeknownst to most of those involved, has been turned into a mind control, thought reform, get out the Republican vote institution. Why the need to put pastors in a special untouchable category? I did respond and said that I loved Billy Graham I allow comments like this to stand so people can see problems I have experienced within Big Eva. Ive been silently wondering the same. Why are you slamming the Bride of Christ? The similarities in these womens stories were striking. Who wants to stir that pot over something potentially ambiguous? But eventually they will wake up to what happened and it will not be pretty when nice people realize that they have been manipulated and used. I will leave you to your study. Oh dear. They are not valid reasons. I have seen it for over 20 years. and this they do with great skill. You did nothing to invite such horrors of sexual abuse. The pair is living in Chicago and is blessed with two children; both boys. Some years ago on a dictionary of internet slang, Christian Side Hug was a term for non-genital sex intended to preserve technical virginity. 18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. Lynne Hybels did not respond to messages seeking comment. One person even called him *Joseph. And once thats done, the only way to survive is to seize the throne Myself. Nothing more. Thus, the cottage industry that often accompanies or is an integral part of their ministry (sic) glides on, and the supposed spiritual.authority who is moving on is positioned to escape consequences and true rebuke. I developed this over the last 10 years in writing curriculum on addressing systemic abuse. Shaping a church this way is an abomination, puts Hybels in very dangerous territory. Come Lord Jesus! If there is anything we can do to be of further support, do not hesitate to let us know! U.S. Pastor Allegations. Sigh. Sad! However, there are a couple of things we cannot judge and this is what I believe what Scripture is talking about. We would have food, beverages, snacks, etc. Redemption is just that; a snatching away from utter separation from God and a second chance-sometimes a chance to bring down the idolatrous temple of a strange god and die in the process while you stand there blind and in shackles-but restored by God. Im thinking of 2 comments right now from over a year ago in which you reposted comments you attempted to post elsewhere. We must judge actions and , if they are wrong, we must pass judgement on them, even if it is one of our beloved leaders. Some people left, but our church has been transformed. I also think if its true, it minimizes his and his wifes ability to legitimately point the finger at others, and the impact of their words, and that is very unfortunate. 1 comment about arms He also told them this parable: Can the blind lead the blind? I wonder if he knows? Salvation: in the ned this in the hands of the One with the higher Pay Grade. I get what you are trying to do and youre very good at it. Was it addressed and ignored by the elders? John & Nancy Ortberg are known to be false teachers, mis-leading the body of Christ teaching unbiblical things such as contemplative prayer which amounts to nothing other than New Age mysticism. Most of the folks who comment on this blog are of that stripe in their comments, they express a great concern for ministers and ministries who appear more concerned about their mission than the Great Commission. Or is this site simply about wholesale condemnation. (none of them did it in a bothersome way, I just wasnt used to it). Hybels et al have it backwards. He just got knocked off his pedestal and some of his supporters are throwing up their hands in despair. Emails can be kept confidential with appropriate IT input. Then the man of God acts as if nothing happened.. @ Davis and Natasha: And Pastor/Apostles Passive-Aggressive Attack Dogs (Tsk. (Keep in mind I was having a hard time mapping that organizational understanding of leadership to servant of the Body of Christ in those days), You dont remember Bill grooming you? God is always present, even in the hard and dark times. Most common reaction in the world. Now, if we mean that believers at Willow Creek (or outside of it) will grapple with Mr Hybels and the Elders sins in these matters as they themselves become more sanctified, I can see that perspective. So what does that say about what he thinks of me that he thinks he can help himself to my woman? I too believed that what I experienced was an aberration and couldnt be attributed to a person of such spiritual stature. I leave all matters of *who is and who is not a real Christian* In the capable hands of the One who has a higher pay grade. @ Davis and Natasha: Where I work we are required to use the company secure email system if sending high or moderate risk information (e.g., social security numbers, credit card numbers, student records, health information). I dont see how Willow Creek can move forward with the existing board. I though this was sarcasm but maybe she really was arguing that Bill should have that level of influence on anyone-let alone everyone he was bringing along. yikes! Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? And I admit to being raised that public displays of affection between adults was not the best as it might make some uncomfortable. The issue with that is that its not like the secular world, in which after perps have done their time, they can make a living in their field of avocation (though in the case of fraud perpetrators and/or crimes with victims, future funds may be diverted to said victims). Strange things are happening on Twitter on this case. Thats how this tends to work. Don calls men who abuse their female intimate partners skilled offenders. Because I handled it in the moment (As she did with her push away response to Hybels) And it worked. Dear TWW readers, I am in Australia so I comment and tweet and post things on FB when you are asleep if you are in the USA. I thought it was weird when my friends dads would kiss my cheek but I recognized that was a cultural difference really and let it be. @ dee: However not having a backup to retrieve is a bad idea and deleting email automatically (other than spam) is a bad practice. I have scolded him & tutted at what hes said & jokingly just gone go on , get out of here, but Id never tell his wife & risk that blowing anything in their family up. Betrayal, trust, etc. It is the Spirits job to convict and change. So much! Some will walk away all together from their faith journey. They also have two children together, whose name we don't know. The news of the divorce came as a shock to many, as the couple had always seemed to have a strong and healthy relationship. Peoples boundaries and privacy should never be breached unless specifically invited or welcomed to do so one way or the other. Driscoll will do quite well in charismatic ranks. Is it that tough for you to give Bill Hybels any redeeming value? When its someone you respect and trust, you dont expect aberrant behavior and you are surprised by it. Who are the people our Creator said were His people?, Are you one of those Serpent Seed believers? I have said his actions with women have been wrong and they are disqualifying for a man of the Gospel. Redemption. He is married to Lynne Hybels since 1974. Please do me a favor Only quote smaller sections of a comment. Not even the great prophets got such responses. But at church with people you see week after week? Maybe its part of why why didnt your husband DO *something* (what? Realizing it WAS NOT YOU. Lets just call it a deviation from the mainstream Christian view of hell. Your experience fits my own. We are not gullible fools. As it says in the bible, Who are we to judge? Trust me, Willow Creek has nothing to do with whether I follow Jesus or not. I dont know that I qualify in your estimation as a person of substance, but Ive been a reader/commenter on this blog for 10 years and have seen Law Profs post for a number of years and know some of his background. [I]n his private life, according to a number of women in his orbit, Krauss exhibits some of the sexist behavior that he denounces in public. I have been doing this for 9 years and that is jus plain baloney. Things are starting to get ugly. So much! We still need to get together on that religious research thingie. And if it gets really bad the staunch hybels factions may end up being ousted. I did, and he asked me to come up for a leadership talk, and told me to come alone. It means wearing Gods name like a banner (CHRIST-ian Leader) and then doing terribly ungodly things that represent Him poorly. You were there (especially for children) Ever. Thats a laugh. I pray every day for you-know-who to be able to find a way out of teaching which did not result in poverty. Bill Hybels has stepped down. We do not allow rank condemnation of anyone who has been victimized, even if said person doesnt believe them. Children The couple has two children. A former minister of mine would give the teenage girl side hugs, which put his hand in a place it shouldnt have been. Status? Of course, you have move people beyond that into a mature relationship with the Lord and some megas neglect this. @ dee: If they were sent and stored in a encrypted format, then you would need the key to open them and read them. In a Facebook post shared over the weekend, a church member accused Dr. B. of kissing, fondling, and pressuring her with sex between 1984 and 1988. No one. He did so for a reason and it is time to wake up and smell the coffee. Trying to encourage and create the best in everyone.. I was speaking more generally, I dont hug men at work! Bigger news story is the Humbolt bus crash. That this has to be explained in The Church is unbelievable. Thanks Erp that is *very* helpful information! I hope you are right about this. Cant people be sincere and caring without all that? He could have retired during the Big 40th celebration and the women could have been supported and validated. Western Christians seem to view hell as a location whereas Eastern Christians seem to view it as a state of being. The Aurora from TSO Photography on Vimeo. At least you know what they are upfront . Nancy had no idea that he was doing this to other women. The term for this is Simul Justus et Peccator. That is me, that is you and that is everyone else. Glad I found that out. Is Bill Hybels still married? Paul spoke up, and evidently appropriate action was taken, for which the Church at large benefitted. Sounds more like damage control. Bill also admitted that the woman alleging an affair had spent many nights at the Hybels home when Lynne was out of town. How can leadership send an OPINION to the entire congregation? All that to say, once these people leave WCC they realize the atmosphere there was not right, and yes this would include John Ortberg as well. But, years of playing the great man on stage can be a very powerful armor. The Holy Spirit, as Dee correctly said, does the work. Judging Others Brad, for better or worse, you are an example of the average WCC person to me. This video was shot in and aroundKirkenesand Pas National Park bordering Russia, at 70 degree north and 30 degrees east. How to build a corporation in 5 easy steps. @ #UnbiblicalPaths: Willow Creek is its own worst enemy not Satan. But at church with people you see week after week? My mom would come up to my room and cuddle while we talked when I was little and not so little. Like you, quite a few of us have spent years studying it deeply. Taught many lies in the churches even to the point where we unknowingly give homage to the devil. He has two children with his wife, Lynn whom he married in 1974. Only saying he did that for women sounds creepier, but he actually did that for everyone he was mentoring. Or, this particular post on my research blog might be of note the Pyramid of Abuse and Culpability/Complicity. I guess Billy Graham never led anyone to Jesus then. Same outrage. He is loving and gracious and is you biggest fan! Make an Example of one, and a hundred will fall right into line, bleating praises. Or suddenly you find out 2-3 (and later 7 or more) women have had similar experiences. Maybe He is cleaning house. I found Jodie Walle comments very interesting, and did help me to understand the culture. Our job is to sow seeds. Shameful! Its been drilled into our heads and many are convinced if the perp or deceiver is confronted (even years later) they will repent. It works but is it the faith? Other tricks of such manipulators include drawing others into guilt-causing behavior, for instance using swear words casually or tossing around jokes about blow jobs. 1 kiss Which is why the Internet is SATANIC WITCHCRAAAAAFT and their on-lookers are the WITCHES! @ ishy: You forgot naked swimming, shower on the boat, and deleted emails. Really? Im thankful they embraced egalitarianism and led the way with women in leadership. If we are not to judge, why would there be a list of sins in the Bible, including in the NT, with an admonishment to punish people via church discipline. My pray time this morning brought me directly to this passage in Luke Chapter 6 vs 37-42. . is lynne hybels still married to bill. It was a constant topic from a social psychological view. It never appeared that they were the type of people that would not speak up. Dont know, but I wonder. How many times do you think it needs to be posted? Lawrence Krauss is a famous atheist and liberal crusader and, in certain whisper networks, a well-known problem, according to author Peter Aldhous, in his article on *BuzzFeed*. is lynne hybels still married to bill. Nancy had no idea that he was doing this to other women. normal life stuff. Dont jump to quickly to the question, How could an honest, intelligent person not have seen what was happening under his or her nose for years?. Im not saying any of that is right. Near the end of this article, Dee posted this question for Willow Creek Church: Is it possible that Bill Hybels encouraged the leadership of women in order to increase his own access to women who admired him within the confines of church business, giving him plausible deniability? Jus plain baloney convict and change or been involved with the ensuing upheaval to saysee expect aberrant and... My woman just so you know whom he married in 1974 thats done, the broad-brush accusation of slamming Church. 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